After the my overview of the youngsters out-of Llywelyn Fawr and you can Joanna additionally the responses it obtained, We looked again from the genealogical users about Gwladus Ddu. Even though it is correct, due to the fact numerous genealogists suggest, you to on the lack of certain proof somehow, the new name of mother out of Gwladus Ddu have to will always be ‘unknown’, I found you should not transform my end one to their unique mommy are Joanna and not Tangwystyl.
She remaining no problem by the Alexander II
That further supply about its people ‘s the after the abstract on the ‘Kings and you may Queens of Britain’ a well-respected guide, published by Oxford College or university Force, webpage 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young buck from Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you can Marared, daughter away from Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate child out of Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Very first, allow me to spend tribute to Sharon. Her lookup to own ‘HBD’, ‘Falls brand new Shadow’ and you may ‘The new Reckoning’, accomplished through to the introduction of the internet, try it’s a great. Virtually everything this lady has written in one trilogy really stands personal test now.
To prove that it’s not merely me personally one thinks so, allow me to quote one to genealogist who’s a beneficial lover out-of Sharon: “I’m very keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s guides. Even though they commonly purely biographical, I’m more comfortable counting on their unique try to ‘submit the fresh blanks’ (given the number of research she obviously put in their unique instructions), than in indeed citing particular genealogical sources which i came across the in my own research (I know all of us stumble on offer that way). So you can those who have not even read her work, I would suggest they really extremely, particularly if you need to get a be for what lifestyle was like 800 years ago.”
After the questions presented from the Beth, Suzanne and Russisk kvinner you may Exotic particularly, I attempt researching new identity off Joanna’s mom (labeled hereafter, to have simple resource due to the fact ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) as a result of an affair into the in order to-be-king John. Shortly after running upwards of several blind alleys, generally due to trying get together again the newest chronology of just one to your other, I’ve settled on what employs. I really don’t claim that what i have written are decisive in almost any contour or means, therefore the truth is that people are likely to not be sure regarding her title.
(a) The newest illegitimate Joanna, daughter off “Clemence,” are definitely produced out-of wedlock –– as it is ended up by Honorius III’s decree declaring their legitimate during the April 1226, even if in place of prejudice to your king or field of England (we.elizabeth., offering their own no-claim to that particular throne). The newest decree, which was transcribed regarding the amazing, unpublished Register out of Honorius III (Reg. Vat. thirteen, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia that “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and therefore, I’m advised, means “King John from The united kingdomt, whenever unmarried , fathered your from the an unmarried lady.”
This proved to be way more advanced than just I’d features consider possible!
It means Joanna may have been produced no afterwards than simply 1189 when John hitched Isabella from Gloucester. Her mommy, “Clemence” are most likely French or Norman, as the evidence regarding the patent goes from John’s reign signifies that Joan was put of Normandy so you’re able to The united kingdomt within the December 1203, to arrange having wedding to help you Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (get a hold of below). Joanna died for the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s genuine daughter Joan, by the Isabella away from Angouleme (married so you can John within the 1200 at years several!), came to be in the Gloucester towards the 22 July 1210 (comprehend the Tewkesbury Annals on Moves Show, vol. thirty-six.we, p. 59; the brand new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty-six.iv, p. 399; as well as the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium getting John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan which next married Alexander II out of Scotland and she passed away inside 1238, particular weeks just after Joanna (this could account fully for a few of the distress clear between your two female).